Vw audi 2.0l tdi bmn / bkd engine misfire / judder fix

Discussion in 'Mk5 VW Jetta, Sportwagen, and Audi A3 TDI forum' started by gtruss, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. tdi-billy

    tdi-billy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    21
    Car:
    vw golf tdi gt sport 140 (running at 168)
    Location:
    tamworth
    Mods:
    remap (performed by previous owner)
    will read through the thread!, just posted a thread about my maf ? hoping & clutching at straws!, Yours is like my vectra cdti, it was driving me mad! i ran a tin of bg244 to a tank full & it ran Perfect till i filled my next tank! so i swapped 2 injectors to prove it was not elec fault (inj easy swap with cdti's), so it returned to normal & the bad readings moved with the injectors so done 2 recons & all ok but trouble is when your trying so much you forget every little bit & all of a sudden its solved & your not quite 100% sure what exactly cured it!. the vectra had rough/chug with blue'ish smoke (didnt look a diesel prob with blue smoke) but its actually unburnt or incorrect injection, it could well be wiring or sensor related though?.
     
  2. biturbo.s4

    biturbo.s4 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Car:
    2001 sharan pd 115
    Lol. Tell me about it. Diesel problems aren't easy to trace.

    The thing is with this car I bought it as a project at a decent price, and promised myself I wouldn't throw money at it willy nilly on the fit parts and hope method.
     
  3. tdi-billy

    tdi-billy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    21
    Car:
    vw golf tdi gt sport 140 (running at 168)
    Location:
    tamworth
    Mods:
    remap (performed by previous owner)
    Read through the posts various sites & you've done quite a lot!, to start if it was mine i would go back to basics (x haulage contractor here), get that filthy derv sorted if poss, i know it could be your injector seals so IF your sure its not the common tandem pump problem & your sure your injector seals are now fine it should clear up in time, I've also read that the injectors have to be done in a certain way & not just bolted down (i presume you know this any way) but you could be running round in circles!, if you're on a budget with this one my advice would always be do a job right & do it ONCE!, Also i've played with torsion & mine was retarded when purchased, i took advice from a vw mechanic who was OK, he advised be Very careful as i found while trying to adjust very very slightly i came to some resistance once & backed it back off a hairs width (he said that was valve to piston that's why it wouldn't move) So i purchased a sealy timing set & checked crank to cams correctly, mine was out! even with torsion being at -.50, set correct it was at -2.9 so i nipped the front can against the lock pin to get -1.9 & left it, your tdc looks out at the btdc at the mo, mine was quick but smokey being retarded but advanced was slower & had a LOT less if hardly any turbo wizz (it has a LOT of noise running 165 with NO smoke at full blast on a RR, long winded i know but backing it up, injector seals 100% ??, Tandem pump 100% ??, timing ?? (not including torsion not relevant if timing not checked with tools) Worth a check, finally i remember you mentioned messing with the loom connector at the r/h side of the head, do you know for certain this is now 100% as you're No 3 is very intermittent & quickly corrected either by vibration (faulty connection) or faulty loom (deviations are constantly monitored & corrected by ecu anyway) so something to chew on & go over Again, i would be fairly sure its simple but overlooked or took as being/looking ok, its tough but more than likely simple!, (my prob i think hopefully i've narrowed down to slight play in an engine mount being taken to the extreme by the dmf exaggerating the symptom & throwing the engine off balance, pushing on the r/h side of the engine whilst it's running virtually stops the rough rocking/idle.)
     
    biturbo.s4 likes this.
  4. biturbo.s4

    biturbo.s4 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Car:
    2001 sharan pd 115
    Billy I've sorted it, Thanks for all of your help. Injector clamp bolts and new seals cured it!! However I am sure it was the stretched bolts that where the problem.

    Full post coming up mate.

    Thanks again.

    Tony.
     
  5. biturbo.s4

    biturbo.s4 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Car:
    2001 sharan pd 115
    Right, where to start! :D



    First of all, I had the bits on order from eBay and TPS when I found a post on UK-MK4 forum where a chap said that the injector clamp bolts can stretch over time. I PM'd him for more info and he said that a friend of his is an Ex Master Tech at VW who now owns his own independent garage and he has seen stretched bolts a few times!



    Anyway, Got a set of seals - 03G 198 051D - from eBay for £60 delivered from Plymouth Audi (Normally an eye watering £107.33!!). I ordered the rest from TPS -



    N10 581 101 - x5 rocker bolt - £5.65 for all
    WHT 003 179 - x8 injector bolt - £16.48 for all
    03G 145 215 A - tandem pump seal - £6.79.

    I also ordered Genuine Oil, filter, fuel filter and air filter for good measure - Funnily enough these bits from TPS where cheaper than Euro's with a 25% discount!

    Anyway, I cracked on...

    Cam cover off and visual inspection of Cams again after removing rocker arm -

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    Looking at Cylinder 3 lobes -

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    Exhaust -

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    Inlet -

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    Anyway, I stopped taking so many pics now and cracked on. I whipped the injectors out and noticed immediately why they are called stretch bolts!! Now I know I reused the injector bolts last weekend when I replaced injector #3, but I knew what I was doing, made sure I didn't over tighten them so not to snap them and immediately ordered a full set of new ones.

    [​IMG]

    Pretty obvious why they are USE ONCE. No idea who was working on the car previously, but they are numpties! Previous owner said it was an independent garage, and had also been looked at by Skoda too!
    Reusing the injector bolts, and damaging injector seals. Silicone sealant everywhere too - worrying stuff.

    [​IMG]

    After removing the injectors, I kept finding pieces of silicone around the base of the injectors and in the injector holes!

    [​IMG]

    I made sure to clean the seats as best as I could without a compressor and air line. No damage at all.

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    I then went to remove the Tandem Pump, and found it was pretty much stuck on! Thats where the silicone was (aswell as the cam cover I removed last weekend)

    [​IMG]

    The battery on my phone then died :(

    I managed to get the pump off easily enough, but it took me 40 minutes with a stanley blade to clean the mating surface on the head, and the back of the pump. I then removed the pulled out the internal fuel rail and cleaned it up, using a piece of hose to blow through the head. I found no end of tiny pieces of silicone everywhere!

    I cleaned the injectors and the nozzles, and used fresh engine oil to lube up the bottom before putting the new O-Rings into place. I also poured a tiny bit down into the injector holes too lining the walls. I managed to press them into place with my hands while rotating them left and right. I torqued them up to 3NM and 270° in one hit. New plunger and adjusting bolt too. I then refitted the rocker arm shaft using new bolts - 20NM and 90°. New Tandem gasket and bolts torqued to 20NM. New Fuel Filter and air filter fitted while I was working on it.

    And after about 5 minutes of priming and cranking the engine over on and off in 5 second blasts, but with a massive cloud of smoke... I expected it because of the oil in the injector bores. After 20 seconds the smoke disappeared and it purred.

    The engine was noticeably quieter too, and had a perfect tick over with no lumps bumps or misfires. haha.

    I took some pictures after tidying up this evening of the bolts, gasket and rocker adjusters and plungers.

    [​IMG]

    You can see they have stretched different amounts, and one head is rounded off too. The clamp marks are from my mole grips.

    [​IMG]

    Plungers - All well worn, but notice the one furthest right was so worn the edge had chipped. Excuse the finger nails - bath time in a moment! lol

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    Adjusters with a lip to the edge and grooves worn into them -

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    Siliconed gasket!!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    We took the car for a spin and it pulls so well! It is immense for a 2.0 diesel engine, and reasonably refined and quiet too. Still a diesely smell coming from the car, but my mate has borrowed it for the week to put some miles on it, and I will see what its like after 100 miles.

    I really suggest anyone with a lumpy idle or noisy engine should replace injector seals. They come with the plungers and adjusters too. Mine has done 146k miles, but has FSH and serviced every 10k too, not on longlife and you can see just how worn they are above.
    Even if you dont have a misfire, the difference of noise at idle is night and day. I'll try and get a video to compare the earlier one when he pops round tomorrow.

    I am now a very happy man. I'd just like to thank everyone who has helped me across the various forums :D

    THANKS!

    Tony. :D
     
  6. biturbo.s4

    biturbo.s4 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Car:
    2001 sharan pd 115
    Just to add, I think this was actually caused by the injector bolts stretching. All of the seals I removed today where fine. It was last weekend that I removed injector #3 with the dodgy ones.



    Not sure though if they stretched over time, or if the 'mechanic' who worked on it last reused them causing them to lose tension.



    The pieces of silicone floating between Tandem pump and injector wouldn't have helped either though.



    And again, thanks to you all.



    :D
     
  7. tdi-billy

    tdi-billy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    21
    Car:
    vw golf tdi gt sport 140 (running at 168)
    Location:
    tamworth
    Mods:
    remap (performed by previous owner)
    So glad your sorted!!!!!!!, & well done it always pays to persist, how did you adjust the injectors ( from getting the cam lobes to correct position to adjustment), have you checked the timing with locking tools & torsion (may aswell get it 100% & your done), Im hoping i've found one problem with mine but will bear all in mind if my first attempt fails (g/box mount worn) engine rocks & worn mount lets it exaggerate getting worse, i'm now looking for an upgrade mount if anyone knows where i can get one, if this fails to hold the engine still i will look into it further (i have inj values in range & no starting issues & no smoke) rough/rocking idle but seems to be felt at times upto 2000rpm when driving. Again well done i bet your well chuffed.
     
    biturbo.s4 likes this.
  8. biturbo.s4

    biturbo.s4 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Car:
    2001 sharan pd 115
    Have a look at either of the links for the dogbone mount -

    http://www.awesomegti.com/car/vw/go...t-only-1-8-tfsi-2-0t-fsi-tdi-golf-mk5-mk6-etc
    http://www.awesomegti.com/car/vw/go...e-mount-only-c-spec-golf-mk5-mk6-type-chassis

    I'd personally go for the first link, its 30% stiffer which should be more than enough.

    Injector clearance was done by loosening off one at a time, and putting the car in 5th whilst rolling it to find the arm's lowest position over the injector. It isn't hard to do, it has a long dwell period so is down for a while and easy to find.
    Wind the 6mm allen key all the way in until it pushes the injector plunger all the way in and resistance is felt and can't be turned any more. Then turn the allen key back 180° and lock it off with the 18mm nut. Then torque the nut to 30nm.
    Do this for all four.

    Simples!

    :D

    I'd do injector seals and new bolts and set rocker clearance at same time as preventative measure for yours. What mileage has it done?
     
  9. tdi-billy

    tdi-billy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    21
    Car:
    vw golf tdi gt sport 140 (running at 168)
    Location:
    tamworth
    Mods:
    remap (performed by previous owner)
    11052014898.jpg 11052014896.jpg Unfortunatly mine is the bigger g/box mount (under battery tray) standard ebay or car shop around £45-48, performance ones on specialists site are very expensive, being looking at the liquid poly stuff mentioned in another thread (clean & mask up mount then pour to fill voids in your bush), looks good but im not sure yet cost is £23 or £33 that should do more than 1 bush/mount, Was just double checking inj procedure as i did do the same (thanks for the re-assurance) i did it correct, I will keep u informed how the mount goes i just cant choose between standard or trying the home pour (if i can find the link i will post, chap was really impressed with his), Now how about this maf ?, whats this like is it normal?, the two brass prongs look like they should have something between them?, (engine idle fast when hot like at cold start!, lowering to normal after a while).
     
  10. tdi-billy

    tdi-billy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    21
    Car:
    vw golf tdi gt sport 140 (running at 168)
    Location:
    tamworth
    Mods:
    remap (performed by previous owner)
    How's it running ?, just curious to the progress since doing the seals & bits, mine still judders on tickover its better since changing the engine mount but still judders, i've noticed it can be felt whilst driving as well usually upto or just above 2000rpm ish, seems like a miss or uneven feeling, (no a cut out or severe jump just an uneven running) no fault codes or smoke or start up problems but just this judder ?.
     
  11. Tdi mike

    Tdi mike New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1
    Car:
    Mk5 2005 gttdi 140
    Location:
    Leicesters
    Hi guys I own a mk5 gttdi 140 after suffering a broken tensioner which caused 2 bent valves and 2 rockers mechanic 1 couldn't fix it so along came mechanic 2 , after a lot of fault finding eventually found 10 smashed rockers so off came the head again. The car is now running but struggles to start and there is the judder/misfire in the 3,4,5and 6 gear between 2000-3000 revs, I've ordered new injector bolts should be here tomorrow. Today though someone told me due to the cambelt failure I would have to remap it to get it to run right, has anyone heard of this before??
     
    Valters likes this.
  12. Boyce23

    Boyce23 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2016
    Messages:
    2
    Car:
    Audi A3 bkd
    Location:
    Wakefield
    I'm having same problem but when I start mine there loads of diesel smoke until the cars warm I've done all this even changed all 4 injectors but it's still the same any advice
     

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