Timing mark on torque converter of a 2001 tdi new beetle?

Discussion in 'VW Mk4 Jetta, Golf, New Beetle, Passat TDI forum' started by RE750, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. RE750

    RE750 New Member

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    IMG_2422.JPG IMG_2423.JPG I'm replacing the timing belt on my daughter's 2001 new beetle with alh motor and automatic transmission.
    The belt, tensioner and pulleys have been replaced, and a new camshaft installed. I need to confirm the timing before I lock the camshaft sprocket onto it's taper.
    The reference material I have shows the timing mark as a sort of lump on the torque converter, that's visible through a rectangular window on the bell housing.
    There are two such lumps spaced maybe 10-15 degrees apart. I'm 90% sure, the one I want to see is the second of the two that appears as you rotate the crankshaft clockwise. While I was struggling to remove the allen headed bolts that hold the crankshaft dampener in place, the crankshaft seems to have rotated slightly, even though I was holding it with a strap wrench, and the camshaft and fuel pump were locked. On rechecking the mark, it looked like the first of the two marks was showing in the window. I moved the crankshaft back to the other mark, but now I'm having doubts. I sure don't want to get this wrong, and this is my first experience with these engines.
    Can someone confirm that I've got this reset to the correct mark?
    Pictures attached:
    The first picture is the first of the two marks that appears as the crankshaft is rotated. The second picture shows the second mark. Someone told me that the lump isn't the actual timing mark, that there's supposed to be a line next to the lump, but I see no lines next to either of these. I presently have the crankshaft rotated so the shinier mark in the second picture is visible.
    In case anyone needs to know, I've got experience with cylinder head work on older American V8 and inline pushrod engines, rebuilding British motorcycle engines, and cylinder head replacement on Toyota 4-cyl truck engines; I understand the basics, and I have the Bently manual for these cars, as well as a Chilton's manual, but I think I need a bit of handholding with this thing as I move through the critical areas of reassembly.
     
  2. Keithuk

    Keithuk Super Moderator

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  3. YMZ

    YMZ Super Moderator

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    Photos aren't too clear on my monitor... there's an additional mark on the back edge of the harmonic balancer, which should align with a mark on the lower metal timing belt cover... it's not nearly as precise as the notch on the flyweel/drive plate, but it will get you in the ballpark... you could partially reassemble the timing belt cover and harmonic balancer 'till you find the correct spot in the back... (you could also remove the #1 glow plug and use a probe - be careful!!!!!!)

    Yuri
     
  4. RE750

    RE750 New Member

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    Hi, thanks for the replies. (Took care of my introductory post!)
    I'm sure I have the engine close to tdc/compression stroke for #1 cylinder.
    I just need to really be sure that I'm looking at the right mark on my flywheel.
    My confusion stems from the fact that when I first started digging into the belts and pulleys, I was turning the camshaft to align the crankshaft. I can't imagine that the timing belt is able to stretch enough to leave the crankshaft 10-15 degrees away from true tdc. Once I started to remove the crankshaft dampener, I realized that the main timing sprocket bolt on the crankshaft was a more accurate way to turn the crankshaft. Once I got the dampener off, it looked like the crankshaft had been rotated counterclockwise a few degrees, even theough the camshaft was locked.
    I'm still pretty sure that the second mark to appear while rotating towards tdc is the one I should be using, but I'd like to hear from someone who's done this a few times on the ALH engine with automatic transmission that I've got it right.
    Note that in my pictures, one of the marks is slightly rusted, and has some numbers stamped adjacent to it. This is the one that I believe to NOT be the actual timing mark.
     
  5. Dave N

    Dave N Member

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    Do you have the crankshaft locking tool? I would install it and not even worry about the timing mark on the flywheel
     
  6. RE750

    RE750 New Member

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    Does the crankshaft have to be properly indexed (like with the slot on the camshaft) before you can use the locking tool, or does it just lock it however the crankshaft is positioned?
    Either way, I'll order one.
     
  7. YMZ

    YMZ Super Moderator

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    Never used the crankshaft "lock"... no need... the one time I saw one used, it didn't hold well enough and the crank moved... I'd still use the harmonic balancer to get you close so you know which is the correct mark...

    Yuri
     
  8. Dave N

    Dave N Member

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    Yes it indexes it
     
  9. Dave N

    Dave N Member

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    Doesn't sound like it was installed correctly. Why bother having it in the wiki article then?
     
  10. YMZ

    YMZ Super Moderator

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    It bent... besides, you don't need it... BTW- isn't it customary, when replacing heads or camshafts, to turn the crankshaft back 90 degrees?
     
  11. Dave N

    Dave N Member

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    I thought he was changing the timing belt.
     
  12. RE750

    RE750 New Member

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    Just to clear up a bit. I started out just doing a belt kit, then decided to replace the camshaft based on visual inspection once I had the cover off.
    This is an ALH engine, and after careful review of the Bently service manual, it appears that a crankshaft sprocket locking tool is not used for working with the timing belt on this engine, nor does it appear that there is an index mark on the sprocket. Indexing is done entirely with the mark on the torque converter with an ALH engine in an automatic transaxle car.
    I'd love to hear from someone who has actually got experience with this particular setup, because niether the Bently manual or the Chilton manual mention that there are two marks about 10-15 degrees apart, both of which resemble the mark in the illustrations that is supposed to index the crankshaft at the tdc position for the #1 cylinder.
    Which of the two marks is the correct one to use? I had thought it was the one that appears second (the shiny mark in my photos) as the engine is rotated. My confusion is caused by the fact that initially, I was rotating the crankshaft by turning the camshaft sprocket bolt instead of the bolt on the crankshaft.
    I tried finding true tdc using a rod dropped through the #1 glow plug hole and a dial indicator, but both marks seem to be within that narrow range of crank movement where the piston remains at the top of stroke.
    So, does anyone here have actual experience with this particular setup?
     
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  13. audi1z

    audi1z Member

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    There is a clearly visible, single "O" on the flywheel (driving disc) indicating TDC. I do not see that on your pictures, they are unfortunately not focused.
    Never turn the crankshaft by turning the camshaft. The timing belt will be overstressed.
    Regards
     
  14. YMZ

    YMZ Super Moderator

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    The damaging stress will be on the tensioner... the belt, assuming it's made by a reputable manufacturer, will survive the abuse...

    BTW: there IS a secondary TDC indicator on the back edge of the harmonic balancer... (looks as if a mouse took a little bite... line up with a notch on the lower metal timing belt cover...
     
  15. audi1z

    audi1z Member

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    No, Sir. It is a clear request by Volkswagen not to turn the crankshaft in that way (see all factory repair manuals). Besides working against the compression pressure, there is a torque ratio of 1:2 on the crankshaft sprocket and 1:1 on the IP sprocket.
     
  16. YMZ

    YMZ Super Moderator

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    Oh, I agree that the engine should only be turned via the crankshaft, but... the belt can withstand the abuse more easily than the tensioner...
     

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