Rattling Noise Engine Area

Discussion in 'Mk5 VW Jetta, Sportwagen, and Audi A3 TDI forum' started by leocat66, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. leocat66

    leocat66 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    Messages:
    53
    Car:
    V W, 2006 JETTA, TDI
    Location:
    Slidell, Louisiana
    '06 Jetta, DSG auto, 180 k on the clock. About 10 or so seconds after starting, while at idle, our engine starts making a low, deep, growling, rattling noise. Sort of sounds like a bad bearing on a wheel, or a harmonic sound which is related a certain RPM. After warming to around 130 degrees the noise stops, and the engine sounds normal. While the noise is present, before warming, the noise will stop, if, the idle speed is adjusted only slightly, either up or down, but returns if normal idle is allowed to resume. It will also disappear if the shifter is put in drive or reverse, but returns if placed in Park or Neutral. Even placing a minor load on the engine, such as turning on the A/C or the rear window defogger will stop the noise. The noise never returns after the engine warms, unless it is allowed to cool way down.

    Other than this issue the car runs and drives perfect. Any ideas on the cause, or anyone else have these symptoms?
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    login to remove this ad
  2. Erich

    Erich New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Messages:
    18
    Car:
    Vw Jetta tdi 2000
    Location:
    burlington
    One of the accessories or tensioner being driven the serpentine belt might be the source of noise. You could try removing the belt and see if that changes the noise when running a cold engine. Possibly bad bearing on tensioner or ac or alternator etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  3. leocat66

    leocat66 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    Messages:
    53
    Car:
    V W, 2006 JETTA, TDI
    Location:
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Great idea, never considered taking the belt off. Have been checking the mounting bolts for the large items related to the belt, thinking one may be slightly loose and rattling until things warm up and expand. Belt removal will be next.

    Thank You Erich
     
  4. John Mack

    John Mack New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Car:
    2005.5 JETTA TDI /2015 JETTA TDI
    Location:
    OREGON
    It might be the dreaded DMF death rattle. It starts out being random and inconsistent, then becomes persistent. If it is the DMF, don't let it get to pronounced or it could come apart and wreck the transmission housing and or cause to lock up at the worst possible time. ....... 60 mph on the freeway.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
     
  5. leocat66

    leocat66 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    Messages:
    53
    Car:
    V W, 2006 JETTA, TDI
    Location:
    Slidell, Louisiana
    OK, that had crossed my mind and I have no real knowledge of that issue even though I have heard of it. We have had this vehicle for several months. The noise has been with us since purchase. It is always the same and has not gotten any better or any worse. Since purchase we have logged about 5K. Wonder if there is a way to confirm ore or eliminate it as the possible cause? I will try to search the forum for more information.

    Thank You John
     
  6. leocat66

    leocat66 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    Messages:
    53
    Car:
    V W, 2006 JETTA, TDI
    Location:
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Searched the forum and was able to listen to the DMF sound recordings associated with one. My noise does not sound like the one on the recording. I have no rocks in the dryer type noise nor do I have noises when shifts take place just a low growling sound in park or neutral, until warm up. I have no noise after warm up, in any gear or park or neutral. Not ruling the DMF out yet, but not certain.
     
  7. John Mack

    John Mack New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Car:
    2005.5 JETTA TDI /2015 JETTA TDI
    Location:
    OREGON
    Do you have or can you get the service records for the car, or contact the previous owners and ask them if they ever replaced the DMF ? I have 160k might on my 2005 Mk5 tdi, and it is just starting to do the rattle intermittently. Go to YouTube and type in DMF RATTLE or noise. There are several videos with sound so that you can hear what the DMF rattle sounds like. I caught mine before it got very bad. A $400 expense (parts only...around $800 to 1,000 total at a shop) is better than thousands for a new tranny or totalled car. Also check out your camshaft. My tdi has 160k MI and the can was just starting to wear on the lifters. There is info on myturbodiesel.com on how to check the cam and lifters for wear. The engine will start running unevenly when the cam is getting close to total failure (a lifter wearing all the way through to the valve stem). Catching things early can save a lot of time and money in the future.
    I have replaced my cam and lifters and cam bearings and DMF. Cost for parts only was approx $1100, I provided the mechanical work. If you don't know when the timing belt was last changed, have it done also. A broken timing belt will cost $1500-2000 just for the new head.... no labor.
    The TDI PD engines are nice, but they require attention and do have some weak spots. Thoroughly review this website. There is a wealth of information here to help you do your own work or let you know what you are getting into. Give a donation if you can..... it is still cheaper than any trip to the shop.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
     
  8. leocat66

    leocat66 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    Messages:
    53
    Car:
    V W, 2006 JETTA, TDI
    Location:
    Slidell, Louisiana
    I have tried unsuccessfully to contact the previous owner. They did not live too far away, but the house is vacant, and the phone is out of service. Car fax had some minor info on maint,. but no specifics. I recently had the timing belt changed as I had no way of telling how long it had been on the car. I have an appointment to have the DSG tranny fluid serviced. I am certain that they will be able to tell from where the noise originates. It seems to be coming from the area just below the Tandem pump which I recently installed. However the noise has been there before the pump change.

    We also own a 2014 bug, and just sold our 99 ALH Jetta.

    I wonder if VW has any info in their system, if the service was performed at any VW dealer? At this point this is still a guessing game. I will try to find more recordings as I had listened to only one on the forum.

    It seems that the car was well maintained, and probably stored inside as it is hard to believe that it has so many miles from its appearance inside and out.
     
  9. John Mack

    John Mack New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Car:
    2005.5 JETTA TDI /2015 JETTA TDI
    Location:
    OREGON
    Get a stethoscope, or a big screwdriver and put the metal tip at various locations near the sound to determine the exact location. The listening device will tend to amplify the sound and may be more revealing than listening from a distance. Remember, the DMF is located directly under the pump that you replaced.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
     
  10. John Mack

    John Mack New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Car:
    2005.5 JETTA TDI /2015 JETTA TDI
    Location:
    OREGON
    Also be advised that there is a small ,5/8 inch dia pilot bearing in the end of the crankshaft, at the center of the DMF, that supports the end of the transmission input shaft. The part only costs approx $15, but you have to remove the transaxle to get to it.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
     
  11. leocat66

    leocat66 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    Messages:
    53
    Car:
    V W, 2006 JETTA, TDI
    Location:
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Will try that stethoscope in the AM tomorrow, as my son has one. Only have about 15 min to listen as the noise goes away at warm up. Just hoping it is not the DMF. Thanks All !
     
  12. John Mack

    John Mack New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Car:
    2005.5 JETTA TDI /2015 JETTA TDI
    Location:
    OREGON
    One other thought. Sound can conduct or transmit through metal. A sound from the front of the engine could transmit to the rear of the engine. That being said, maybe checking the timing belt cover for rubbing would be a good idea. Take the covers off and check for signs of contact between the cover and a moving part. Run the engine with the covers off and see if the noise goes away.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
     
  13. leocat66

    leocat66 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    Messages:
    53
    Car:
    V W, 2006 JETTA, TDI
    Location:
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Thank You John. About 6 weeks ago we changed the timing belt, and checked the cover for contact, just from routine curiosity. There was no sign of contact and the noise was there before and after the change. Good thought on the sound travel idea too. Everything is so noisy when this engine is running when first started for the day. Certain the scope will be a better way than just listening from above and guessing.
     
  14. tdiforester

    tdiforester New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    14
    Car:
    2006 Jetta TDI with DSG
    Location:
    Dublin, GA
    I have the same exact issue on my 2006 Jetta. The knocking sound only starts after about a minute when cold, and stops after it's warm or put into gear under a load. FYI..... I've had the needle bearing go out on another DSG before and this doesn't really sound like the light rattling I've heard before. Please keep us updated on what you find as the underlying cause. I will do the same on my end. Hopefully it's not serious. Some specific from mine are as follows:
    • 2006 Jetta BRM with a DSG, 175K miles
    • Timing belt kit, cam kit with lifters, alt. pulley recently replaced
     
  15. Shark56

    Shark56 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2015
    Messages:
    18
    Car:
    Volkswagen, jetta tdi, 2006
    Location:
    United States
    I own two 2006 jetta tdi's. My guess would be a bad DMF. Ive had to replace both of them on both cars. Based on what your describing, that would be my guess. The DMF is notoriously known on this particular model to fail and almost everybody will have to replace theirs at some time or another. Mine only made the sound during idling but would go away after putting it in drive. It did get a little better after it warmed up, but it usually always rattled at idle. Regardless of the problem, you should get it checked out, because if it is the DMF you could seriously damage your tranny if it comes off.
     
    tdiforester likes this.
  16. Octavian Diaconu

    Octavian Diaconu New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2016
    Messages:
    11
    Car:
    Vw Polo 2006 1.4 TDI 59kW 1422cc BNV
    Location:
    Bucharest, Romania
    a have a similar noise on the car from my description (5 gear manual). it was very loud (compared with last summer) this winter (-20). If I pressed the clutch pedal until the disc doesn't touch the pressure plate anymore, the sound stops. if the car gets well warmed up, I guess also the transmission oil, 98% of the sound disappears. the 2% I guess are normal (some things still move in the transmission, it's normal to hear a sound). some people say there is a bearing supporting the only axle that comes out of the gearbox case, a needle bearing. they say that bearing may cause the noise.
    I am a bit worried as the care also has another type of noise. after well warming up (never when cold), on neutral, just before stopping (0.5 km/h) there's a rattling/knocking noise that stops the second the wheels stop spinning. it remains sometimes if the wheels are turned left or right when the car stops.in this situation, if I turn the steering wheel left or right (car still stands still) the noise gets louder or quieter. the noise also appears if driving with constant speed, in 2nd, 3rd or 4th gear (maybe also in 5th but all the other noises are too lound) at about 1800-2000 rmp or when turning at constant speed, just between very slight acceleration and very slight decelaration. I removed the left drive shaft and either the inner or outer CV joint has no play. might it be some play in the differential? if I drive it really hard uphill and on hairpin curves it makes no strage noises...
    maybe it's just my paranoia and some normal 235.000km wear noises...
    I just hope it doesn't fail away from home (I make 4-700km trips very frequently, and also a summer vacation at 2 countries and 600km away from home per year). if the gearbox breakes down in another country, it might be cheaper to just leave the car there and cut my losses :).
    any thoughts about what might cause those noises? or about their normalness? :)
    thanks
     

Share This Page