Latest consensus on manual transmission fluid?

Discussion in 'VW Mk4 Jetta, Golf, New Beetle, Passat TDI forum' started by UhOh, Nov 8, 2014.

  1. UhOh

    UhOh Member

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    I've noticed that my "new" 2000 Golf is making a low growling noise when I steer to the right and at higher speeds (I believe only at speed). Anyway, it might not be an issue with the transmission, but it got me thinking about replacing the transmission fluid. Car's got 116k miles on it: I'm still waiting to get the service records from the (PO's) shop that used to service the car, in which case I have no idea whether it was ever replaced or not, or if it had what fluid they might have used.

    My shifting is a bit notchy (a bit amplified after installing the Sigma5 shifter [which I think is great]), so I'm definitely interested in changing the fluid out.

    I guess that the growling noise is more like a low hum. This condition was noted in TSB 34 06 02. List of VINs affected are given. The bulletin says to change the fluid to G055 726 A2. It now sounds like G070 is now the recommended fluid (superseding all others). Seemed fine until I ran across this thread on TDIclub:

    http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=132884

    In this thread people were complaining that G055 and G070 either didn't help or that they made things worse; the title of the thread is "stick with G52 in ur tranny - here's why..." Appears to be a HUGE can of worms! There's some technical discussion implying that VW is mis-stating the viscosity of G070, that it's actually much thinner than stated (possible problems in warmer climates): listing of viscosity for various fluids given at this post:
    http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1651882&postcount=251 Seems that just about any fluid discussed had/has issues, with the one exception of GM Synchromesh (now ACDelco Synchromesh [http://paceperformance.com/i-733534...mission-fluid-friction-modified-1-quart.html]).

    Has anyone here run ACDelco Synchromesh?

    This stuff makes my head spin! I tend to lean toward what the manufacturer recommends, but in this case it seems that there's enough evidence out there to warrant a second-guessing.

    I'm in a mild climate (PNW), in which case I don't have to worry about extreme temperatures.
     
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  2. UhOh

    UhOh Member

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  3. Poormanq45

    Poormanq45 Member

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    I'd go with g50 which was factory fill.

    52,60 and 70 are all much much thinner.

    I'm actually putting mt90 into mine as I'm in Florida.
     
  4. UhOh

    UhOh Member

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    TSB 34 06 02 states to use G055 (not listed below) is there's an issue with noise: VW switched to using this (until they changed to G070?). At this point I'm not sure where the noise is coming from: I just realized it the other day. The car seems to shift better when it's warmed up: pretty certain that this is fluid-related.

    Here's a list of viscosities from http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1651882&postcount=251

    VI Vis@40C Vis@100C
    128 159.0 18.3 = AMSOIL CTL SAE 50 Powershift GL-1
    ..............16.7 = Motul MOTYLGEAR 75-90 GL-4/-5
    ..............15.6 = VW G50/G51 GL-4
    185 90.0 15.6 = Redline MT-90 75-90 GL-4
    ..............15.2 = Mobil 1 Synthetic 75W-90 GL-5
    ..............15.2 = Motul Gear 300 75-90 GL-4/-5
    ..............15.0 = Elf Tranself Synthese FE 75-90 GL-4/-5
    132 116.0 14.9 = AMSOIL AGL 80W-90 GL-5
    177 84.5 14.7 = AMSOIL MTG 75-90 GL-4
    133 76.2 11.0 = AMSOIL CTJ SAE 30 Powershift GL-1
    183 56.2 10.6 = Redline MTL 70-80 GL-4
    194 47.1 9.6 = AMSOIL MTF Synchromesh Trans fluid (GM/Chrysler) None
    208 41.6 9.08 = Penzoil Synchromesh trans fluid None
    198 34.0 7.5 = Redline D4 ATF Dexron III / Mercon / API GL-4
    138 40.5 7.1 = AMSOIL CTG SAE 10W Powershift GL-1
    ..... 31.2 6.5 = VW G-052-171-A2 None (Synthetic)
    ..... 35.1 6.38 = VW G-055-726-A2 None
    ..............6.3 = VW G52 (part numbers G052726A2 / G05272601) None (Petroleum)

    The G050 is certainly thicker. The AMSOIL/GM (same, really?) seem to be right in the middle of the fluids that VW has recommended: makes one wonder how VW could specify such a wide range in the SAME transmission.
     
  5. almir

    almir Member

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    red line out of 135 people 119 gave 5 stars and 13 4 stars
    http://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-3050...92223&sr=8-1&keywords=red line dexron iii atf
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2014
  6. UhOh

    UhOh Member

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    Almir, yes, Redline. I'd run it (MT-90? not sure, as it was put in by my Saab mechanic) in my old Saab 900 turbo and it made a world of difference for that car: these cars were notorious for having messed up 2nd gear synchros- Saab didn't properly account for the extra hp and torque from the turbo: very interesting transmissions though.

    Seems to be a range of opinions on Redline from the VW TDI community (read that thread from tdiclub.com): some folks put it in and then promptly replaced it. Can't recall, though, whether folks specified whether they used the MT-90 or the D4 ATF. Clearly there's a difference.

    Different cars/transmissions. Different environments. (AND, different drivers- more subjective) It's really hard to evaluate unless it's using a bit more of a controlled group. And, there's the issue of long-term effects: which is why sometimes it's just easiest to stick with what the manufacturer recommends (but again, VW seems to have been all over the map on this issue! [I don't think that they just pump out TSBs for the heck of it]).

    On my issue about shifting, it seems that everything is kind of a moving target. Sometimes things seem pretty decent (acceptable), while at other times it's not all that great. Is it my mood? o_O This car, these cars, are new to me, so perhaps it's a matter of getting more familiar with them/it. Might also be that the Sigma5 shifter needs to settle in a bit*. Compounding things is that I don't have time (and, really, I tend to only burn fuel in a productive way- I have a mental block for just going out and driving around [something that I'd done in a previous life]). I need to make a more concerted effort to ferret these things out...

    * I believe that I have the adjustment correct. But, my locking pin is broken, so adjusting is a bit more difficult.

    Anyway, I know that I'll eventually want to change the fluid. Some of this is just doing advanced scouting (and some just trying to isolate the noise that I'm hearing every now and then).
     
  7. 86-tin-top

    86-tin-top New Member

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    Few days late on this but I may suggest you check out wheel bearings, tbey tend to make the explained growl you are hearing. Normally if you are turning right you are loading the left bearing, causing noise and vise versa. Block the wheels, jack it up and get someone to drive it in the air while yoh listen with a stethoscope but be careful of moving parts!
     
  8. UhOh

    UhOh Member

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    86-tin-top, no, you're not late; and, yes, wheel bearings are still items of suspect.

    I'm wanting to change the trans fluid because the shifting is kind of crappy (notchy): my annoyance with the shifting has proven to be warranted after obtaining an identical car for my wife and finding out that IT shifts really nicely (though the clutch is a bit stiffer than I'd like for her- it's the same with my car, in which case I figure it's just the nature of the beast). If I still have noise I'll progress to the wheel bearings ;)
     
  9. 86-tin-top

    86-tin-top New Member

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    I am new here, and havent caught up on the rules yet,so feel free to flame or delete for the next comment as it seems to be how it goes when talking about amsoil, but I have had good luck and a good feel from amsoil syncromesh oil, I run it in my cars and all the cars I service with as its what I can get easily with no complaints or Ill effects.
     
  10. Poormanq45

    Poormanq45 Member

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    All of the syncromesh products are in the weight range of g60. It seems to have great results in every manufacturer's transmission.
     
  11. UhOh

    UhOh Member

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    With trans fluids there's a lot going on (and the conditions in which they operate can be quite diverse- I don't envy any of the engineers having to spec out fluids). I've read that the syncromesh fluids can both work and not work for folks. Yes, anecdotals and all, but... No one that I read about had any issues with the 060 (some didn't have any change). I will go with 060 and report back on what I find: might not be until after the first of the year though.
     
  12. UhOh

    UhOh Member

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    Just a quick note... I haven't changed out the fluid yet, but it SEEMS like I'm noticing that the transmission shifts easier when it's cold/cooler (not really warmed up). It's really a subjective thing, but that's my feeling. If this is the case, could such behavior be the result of additive breakdown?

    Poormanq45, thanks for the verification. Seems that the Go60 is the safest and surest bet.

    Again, I WILL post a follow up on this adventure: I think it should be mandatory that people follow up.
     
  13. UhOh

    UhOh Member

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    Interim update.

    More research has led me to order AC Delco 10-4014 Friction Modified Synchromesh fluid: it was formerly under GM's name. This is what I've ordered (not plugging for this supplier):
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0026JK8FK/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    I've ordered enough to do both cars, but will start with my car first (mine's the guinea pig). My wife's car shifts pretty well in comparison and I'll use it as the reference (and change it if this fluid works well in my car).
     
  14. UhOh

    UhOh Member

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    Yea! Got the trans fluid changed! First impression is that this AC Delco fluid is everything that everyone says it is. I was able to detect a marked improvement in shifting instantly! My old fluid didn't look bad at all; in a way I was expecting it to look crappy: I have no record of the fluid being changed- car just clocked over 119k miles.

    Outside temperatures were in the mid to high 40s F. Will have my wife drive it to see what she thinks, and if she likes it, which I'm pretty sure will be the case, I'll be doing hers as well. Will have two cars and two different drivers in which to go by to assess this fluid.

    Will be reporting back over time.
     
  15. UhOh

    UhOh Member

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    I believe that all my noises have been cleared up. I replaced a front wheel bearing and am pretty certain that this was the noise that I was hearing.

    The AC Delco trans fluid is still working wonderfully. About 7k miles since changed in my car. My wife's car seems to be improving as well: I think her clutch is getting a bit tired, though- it's definitely stiffer than the one in my car; her car has about 30k more miles.
     
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  16. Octavian Diaconu

    Octavian Diaconu New Member

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    Hi guys,

    I actually read most of this thread. I either missed it, or the info was not clearly stated. I have a 2006 Polo TDI BNV JCZ transmission. In 2007-2008, the car had a service action (as they call it), and they replaced the gear oil. Part number used: G052512S0. As I found out, this is an internal part number. We can buy it as G052512A2. At around 100k km, I bought gear oil from the dealer - part number G070726A2. At around 200k km - same part number. I didn't pay any attention to the part number. I thought they will sell me what the car uses...
    What do you think I should buy now: G052512A2 or G070726A2. Does anyone know for sure the difference between the two?
    I'm thinking about this because I have 2 different noises from the gearbox:
    1. something like "hhhhh" when under 0C, at first start in the morning. it stops when the clutch is completely disengaged (everything in the gearbox stops). if it's only half, sound is still there. after 5-10 min of driving, the sound goes away. If over 10C, sound is not present.
    2. after wellwarmed up gear box, when over 20C in the air, just before the car comes to a complete stop, so 1-2 km/h, it makes a knocking sound but not continuously - it's like the sound can be heard every 45 degrees of the wheel. car can stop and the noise may or may be not present ( depends on where the wheel or driveshaft stops). if the noise is present, it goes away if trying to engage 3rd or 4th gear without pressing the clutch, or if turning the steering wheel !! it also goes away gradually if pressing the clutch. if the car stops and the noise is not present, I can be heard if turning the steering wheel.
    if there was a gearbox issue, why is it affected by the turning of the steering wheel?
    the car has no abnormal noises when driven: hard accelerating, hard decelerating, turning hard uphill, breaking hard downhill and turning.
    someone gave me the idea of checking the tapered coned bronze ring from the flanged output shaft that comes out of the diff, and when doing so, I will put fresh gearoil in. now, what should I use G052512A2 (the service action oil) or the G070726A2 (the oil that the dealer would sell me now according the VIN) ?

    Thanks!
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  17. Octavian Diaconu

    Octavian Diaconu New Member

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    just put in G052512A2. Obvious smoother shifting (25 Celsius outside) cold and warm. I expect the lever to move like through honey in the winter for the first 10-15 min but I won't mind.
    When I took out the filling plug (car leveled), about 100-150 ml of oil bursted out, so that confirmed my "suspicion" that I did overfill the gearbox, which is good [​IMG].
    When refilling, I tilted the car for about 10-15 degrees, and it took about 1.8 - 1.9L of oil before starting to overflow. Then I put the filling plug back in quickly so I guess I overfilled it also this time.

    difference between G052512A2 and G070726A2: G052 seems to have a bit darker colour. At room temp, to the naked eye they seem to have the same viscosity.
     

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