DSG Service Questions?

Discussion in 'VW Mk6 Golf, Jetta, Beetle, Sportwagen TDI forum' started by 59bisquik, Feb 23, 2015.

  1. 59bisquik

    59bisquik New Member

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    After just getting a $500 quote from the VW dealer to service my DSG and replace my fuel filter, I am thinking I should just get the equipment and do it myself.

    I have read the article and was going to attempt the measure/refill method with a top fill. The instructions state to install the snorkel and then the oil pan plug. Is the snorkel already in my transmission or is it something I need to purchase? Sorry for the silly question, but I have always had it serviced and want to make sure I have everything needed before I tear it apart.

    Any other tips of wisdom?
     
  2. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Active Member

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    Watch this and many others.
     
  3. 2011GolfTDI

    2011GolfTDI Member

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    From the way the DIY instructions are written, it would seem that the snorkel is permanently installed; i.e., drain plug must be removed before snorkel can be accessed, and snorkel is installed prior to fill, then drain plug. Also, appears there would be no way to perform the factory fill method unless the snorkel remained installed after the fill.
     
  4. mikeme

    mikeme Active Member

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    the snorkel is in there, alright. comes out so easy (not a lot of torque required) at first I wondered if it was there.

    with a hand full of dripping fluid, an 8mm hex seems a little slippery.

    and this method is the specified procedure, but no claim is made that they use it in the assembly plant.
     
  5. mikeme

    mikeme Active Member

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    and for free advice, you need to allow some extra fluid to wet the filter.

    I also think there is some good reason to overfill and drain to spec, at temp, after running through gears, level, while still running.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
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  6. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Active Member

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    Agree.
     
  7. 59bisquik

    59bisquik New Member

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    Sheesh! I have watched a ton of videos on Youtube for changing DSG fluid. The measured method seems the least messy and wasteful.

    For those of you who have actually done it... what are the major pros and cons for either method?
     
  8. mikeme

    mikeme Active Member

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    First of all, how are you going to measure the volume of what comes out?

    (seems like a mess to me)

    Then, what correction will you use for the amount needed to wet the new filter?

    Second, running with a little excess fluid as the transmission comes up to temp further dilutes the fluid left in from a gravity drain.

    use of a funnel to fill from the top via the filter hole increases the chance some extra outside substance will also enter, and you are taking advantage of what is not really meant as a fluid path. (From the filter to the sump with the engine stopped) it also sounds like this takes a while to let fluid drain from the funnel into the transmission.

    fill from the bottom using the proper tool does not take too long (in my opinion).

    in either case, the right way to set fluid level is as I advised earlier. If you want to substitute measure and replace, you may end up with too much or too little fluid. not the end of the world probably, but not the correct amount.
     
  9. DubFamily

    DubFamily Active Member

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    1 thing to keep in mind with this: It isn't rocket science... :D

    Thermal expansion of transmission fluid is in the neighborhood of .05 - .08% per degree C; so with 5 Qts of fluid at 30C you would have ~5.25 Qts at 100C... I don't know exactly what the rate is for DSG fluid but it won't be far off from that. There isn't really a huge temperature variation in there.

    The most important thing is to measure it accordingly; there isn't a dipstick so you need to have it warmed up before checking the level. Drain and fill can work fine, but again you have to make sure the temps are close so you aren't getting a false reading (draining hot fluid, then adding that much cold fluid would result in higher levels once heated). But as I said above, it isn't rocket science. As long as you are close, you aren't going to kill your transmission.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
  10. chittychittybangbang

    chittychittybangbang Administrator

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    I just wish VW put in a dipstick or an electronic dipstick. I think they're a bunch of dipsticks for not doing that :D
     
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  11. mikeme

    mikeme Active Member

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    They did put an electronic ultrasonic one in the EA288 Engine.

    so that is something.
     
  12. mikeme

    mikeme Active Member

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    and VW is not the only one. I serviced the auto transmission on my son's 2008 Cobalt. similar deal, fill with fluid, bring up to temp, run through the gears, and drain to level (except they had a bolt in a fill hole on the side of the tranny case instead of the snorkel. that car also had a vent on the top of the transmission which had a cap which you could remove and use to fill the transmission. filter change required dropping the pan.
     
  13. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Active Member

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    The Dealerships are dipsticks for charging so much for fluid replacement
     
  14. phippsfam

    phippsfam New Member

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    The replacement is very easy, after you've done it a couple times. These things are on 40k intervals, so there is other maintenance needing done. Keep this in mind to make things easier on you.

    Things recommended. The snorkle doesn't work right if the car is not perfectly level. I use ramps for most of this, then switch to jack stands after filling the transmission. The transmission is too expensive to screw things up. The car has to be warm to drain properly - protect your hands. I wear cheap wool elastic gloves with medical golves over them. I drain the DSG first, then use the same pan for the engine oil and then recycle. While its draining, I pull the battery and its tray. If you unhook the 180 bend that goes to the grill, just held by a couple tabs. Then whole air filter assembly box, hose and all just lifts off.

    I go ahead and pitch the DSG and oil filter. Then, I pitch clean out the housings and send the new filters with new oiled seals back in and torque properly. Pop the snorkle tube in the DSG, hook up the DSG oil pump (Aussenmacher makes a great one), drain plug on the engine. Hook up the pump. I will get to why you should never do a top fill method. Battery tray, battery, air filter. Fresh engine oil can now go down. This is the coldest your car's underhood wiil be, so knock out the fuel filter change now.

    put 5L of DSG oil in the pump, open the valves, and then add at least 4.5 L, or until it tops over the snorkel. Kick the ramps out and get the wheels suspended in a fashion which keeps the car level. Close the valve on the pump, then run the car to operating temp in all gears. reverse, 1-6 manually. each gear gets bathed in the oil, so all gears should get warm. fluid should be even with the top. Shut car off and remove the tool. Secure the dust cap. Reset service reminders, and any idiot warning lights that show up. Air filter if you use paper filters. Verify engine oil level is still correct, check for leaks, rotate tires.

    Top fill: will always result in an over fill. If you measure what you drain, this amount will always be greater due to metal fragments in oil, and heat expansion. Thats why you warm the gears up. Next, if you wait for oil to top over, then you must wait for the oil to drip all the way down to know exact level. This takes about 1-1.5 hours due to the high viscosity. I am also not a fan of extraction techniques except for removing the residual amount in the filter housing. you can't capture all the junk out of the bottom of the transmission housing from its lowest point. the plug was put there for a reason. use it.
     
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  15. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Active Member

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  16. mikeme

    mikeme Active Member

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    Spent four hours yesterday on oil, dsg, fuel filter. bottom fill, using the factory single bottle tool. I have the older version, without the two metal tubes. has a plastic valve that lets you gently squeeze oil out, and then suck air into the bottle, so the fluid does not take that long to fill. I alternated between liters of DSG fluid and oil, which I like to let drain a bit anyway. I was lucky enough to have access to a lift, which makes things a little easier.

    you really need to leave the engine running while you remove the fill tool and install the DSG drain plug. (next time I need to order a drain plug washer before the job.)

    with the interval of 60k miles for air filter, there is another year left in mine (at my 20 k per year)

    VCDS used to fill the fuel filter can and system with fuel using vehicle pumps, and to monitor DSG fluid temp. doing the other service with the DSG allows the DSG to cool from a drive on the way to the garage, DSG fluid started at 31c, a few minutes running got it to 35 c. after removing excess fluid, and torquing the drain plug, the fluid was still less than 45c when I turned the engine off.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  17. Theomarakas

    Theomarakas Member

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    For those that prefer the measure and fill method there is a way to be extremely accurate. Obviously, most people are concerned about the amount of oil absorbed by the filter for the DSG and how do you compensate for that. To measure the volume accurately is nearly impossible. Measuring the WEIGHT is the way to go.
    Here's what I did. I took a tub to dump the oil and recorded the weight on a gram scale. Then, I dumped the DSG oil, removed the dirty oil filter and put in the tub and then everything onto the scale. Recorded the weight and then on a separate but IDENTICAL tub I thew in a DSG filter and enough DSG oil to equal the weight of the dirty oil tub, and filter.
    Now that you know exactly how much oil is needed to be exactly the same as of what was removed it is just a matter of using a pump that will put in every drop of oil determined by the weight method.
    This method eliminates the need for VCDS, zero loss of new fluid while adjusting the level, zero mess. Assuming that the level is correct in the first place, it will continue being the same.
    Also a big advantage to this, you don't have to keep the vehicle perfectly level, it is just a dump and fill method which anybody with minimal mechanical skills can perform. By the way, in the modern transmissions, clean fluid is of most importance and this German nonsense about lifetime trans fluid (mercedes Benz) can really cause expensive repairs. Dirt has to go someplace and certainly not inside the solenoid valves and electronic boards. and 50,000 miles is more than enough to do that. Considering that DSG only holds about 4.5 quarts vs TQ converter trans @ 12 quarts you can see why the factory service intervals may be too long. I usually change my DSG oil every 20,000 miles, it only costs $110 for parts. While at it, since my hands are dirty, fuel filter gets a change, too. Then I do the same for engine oil. 5,000 miles is the max. OEM filter and Total INEO Long life oil is about $50 and it takes about 45 minutes with the suction method. Forget about going under the car.
    Anyway, that's just the way I do it, correctness can be a subject of long conversations. Just thought that someone out there can benefit from my ideas.
     
  18. diesel2

    diesel2 Member

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    Any one use Amsoil's DCT in their DSG transmission and if so what's your opinion on it.
     
  19. Theomarakas

    Theomarakas Member

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    I haven't heard anything on Amsoil. Is it cheaper? is is the same price? Why bother? Use OEM and have a peace of mind. There are people on Ebay that will sell you 5 quarts and OEM filter for about $90 dollars OEM or FEbi, Bilstein. That ensures you won't have any transmission repairs. Go with Amsoil and take your chances approach doesn't appeal to me.
     
  20. diesel2

    diesel2 Member

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    I ask about the Amsoil as it meets VW specs., and it has a pour point of - 72 degs F so should Perform great in my winter and it protects in the heat also. So will be my choice as Amsoil shows their specs where as other brands I am ready to see them but they all seem to fail showing them. I believe Amsoil in my opinion is the better or rather the best choice. Each their own for what you want to use. The fact that Amsoil DCT DSG Transmission fuild cost more means nothing to me if it is the better DSG fuild and in my opinion it is the better choice bar none. Hey each their own to what they believe to be the best used in their car.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017

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